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Thread: The Sad tragedy of those living "Stealth" our greatest successes live in fear.

  1. #1
    Admin? In charge? Mew? Who? Me? Nuh uh! From_Ariel's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Sad tragedy of those living "Stealth" our greatest successes live in fear.

    By the way I want to say again Ana It's really amazing that you are doing this site in general. It seems like the very pretty 100% passable girls like yourself all just ignore the rest of the community in fear of "being outed as tg" So few of our real success stories are standing up like you are and saying look I did this and you can too.
    -----

    The Sad tragedy of those living "Stealth" our greatest successes live in fear.

    "Stealth" is when you do not reveal to anyone that you were ever born differently then you are today. Although the argument can be made that yes they/you always were girls, the argument can also be made that they were always girls but had to pretend to live as boys for a time. Persons in stealth will never allow their "secret" to be found out by friends and coworkers for fear of reprisal. Persons in stealth will also make little white and huge whopper lies to cover for themselves. Those in "Deep-Stealth" often move away from friends and family they have known for years sometimes never even telling them of their transition so that they can hide their secret completely. Thus some friends and family that might have still loved them even after transition are lost and the person is lost to their family. Possibly leaving family members that care very much behind and they will never see them again.

    Imagine if one day someone you loved just moved away and disappeared with no answer no reason nothing. You'd likely be worrying about them for year after year possibly forever. Especially if you had a good relationship with them prior to them disappearing and didn't know this was gonna happen. Don't do this to family. Just cuase it may seem easier to you not to face rejection, imagine if they surprise you and support you. Further, why would you hurt people that love you just so you don't have to face the possibility of a rejection that may never happen? People please consider these things before abandoning your loved ones.

    There are several reasons that I think this kind of living is unhealthy. The most clear reason to me is this.. I personally didn't go from lying to try and pretend to be a boy/guy only to live my life still lying now that I can finally be myself. Sure I don't wear a t-shirt saying I'm trans, or tell the cashier at the store. At the same time though if the store clerk asked me if I think transgendered persons are weird or wrong, I would likly say, "Do you think I'm weird? Cuase I AM transgendered as well." (assuming the clerk didn't know and made a comment for unknown reasons, lol)

    This kind of "Stealth" living has left our community with either not passing to decently passing activists and few people that show what is possible. This I think is one of the tragedies of "Stealth" and the greatest shames of our community because our greatest success stories will never be known for they are all in hiding.

    This has the effect that in the end the media and political circles show pictures of TG/TS people at protests and rallies and the bulk of those that show up for such events are ones that aren't afraid because they don't pass as well already. If one doesn't pass perfectly they have little to lose by reaching out publicly. I want to be clear I AM NOT insulting anyone here, but I know for a fact many gorgeous girls that hide and fear of anyone finding out they were not born as they are now. Those that do pass do not reach out to the rest of the community because they are afraid if they are seen helping others like them they will get treated badly and discriminated against. Whereas if they can pass and stay silent there is no risk of discrimination.

    I also want to say I don't blame those that prefer to live in stealth for this. I understand all to well the fears of discrimination, but how can we ever end discrimination if our greatest successes are all in hiding? How can we be taken seriously? It is so sad that when people live in stealth for their own sake they are actually reinforcing those same stereotypes that cause the discrimination in the first place on us all.

    No one should have to live in "Stealth". No one should have to fear they will be hurt or mistreated if it is found out they were born with a different letter on thier birth certificate then now. And IMHO admitting that you were born with a physical sex that doesn't match your true gender identity does not undermine or lessen who you are. A person I knew used to say "I'm a woman with a very unusual medical history". That if anything is true of all of us.

    In the end if you feel you have to live in "Stealth" to avoid discrimination, that you have to live your life filling it in with lies to cover your origins are you really living? People in stealth will make up stories of them as young girls playing with barbie or what not to avoid being outed in conversations with other girls even when they NEVER owned a barbie. Some are so scared of being outed that if someone was trash-talking another TG/TS person right in front of them they would stay silent to avoid being found out.

    Just something to think about and something I wanted to share. Personally I strongly dislike "Stealth" and "Deep-Stealth" even though I see why some choose to do it.

    "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
    -- George Santayana ~1906
    When we try to forget who we are and the experiences of the past, are we just propagating the same life of fear on future generations? Will our civil rights remain in infancy as Santayana as long as there is still those living in "stealth"?
    Last edited by From_Ariel; 12-13-2010 at 04:31 PM.

    Be yourself! Love who you are!

    Those that Matter don't Mind.
    Those that Mind don't Matter.
    --Ariel (Admin www.TransgenderBeauty.com)

    "If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind,"
    "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."

    -- Arfa Karim Randhawa (10 years old)
    .
    .
    Spoiler for Click to show useful Links & Resources:

    Standards of care for TG/TS (this is the rules and guidelines any reputable doctor or surgeon follows this has all the requirements in it.)
    http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf

    Lynn Conways Gallery of transsexual Successes

    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conw...Sgallery1.html

    Lynn Conways Gender and TS/TG basics Primer
    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

    Susans.org This is one of the oldest and best general resources for information of all kinds re: transition. Additionally it's 100% non-Profit and staffed by volunteers that care about the community. I have been a member for a long time and can highly suggest their resources. Also their chat room is 100% supportive and caring and one of the only TG/TS chats I regularly visit.
    http://www.susans.org/
    http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/Main_Page
    http://www.susans.org/reference/index.html
    http://www.susans.org/chat/index.html

    TS/TG Roadmap My disclaimer below aside, there really is some good info here but IMHO don't buy anything from them. Anything they sell can be gotten free from other people or other sites.

    (for the record I don't endorse or suggest you buy anything from this site or it's owner IMHO she is a profiteer that is literally making a living out of selling stuff to the community. If She really wanted to help like she says she does she would be providing things like the voice training videos free of charge via you tube not charging upto 20-50$ for them! I know hosting a website can cost lots of money but she could ask for donations to help fund the site also. Instead she lives in a huge house very comfortably off the money she gets from us...)
    http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html

  2. #2
    Super Moderator TS Jelissa's Avatar
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    Personally, I'm okay with people being stealth and I'm okay with people being open. The only issue I have with stealth people are the fact that they convince themselves that they are not trans, and when it gets out and someone uses it against them they're devastated. Where as had they been true with themselves from the beginning, being called trans shouldn't be an insult at all and it shouldn't even affect you. Like you said, I don't go around announcing it to everyone that I know, but it's not entirely secret either. My friends and family know, I've never been clocked based on physical features. If I'm clocked it's generally from those around me who already knew me before transition, and I have a problem with that. If anyone's going to know about my transgender status, I'd rather it be told by me and not the neighborhood or some stranger who heard it from someone else. I'd like to be able to pick and choose who I disclose that information to, because people are crazy out here and they will hurt you. So you always have to be mindful of who you tell, who knows, and their personality. Like if you have phony friends, be mindful of hanging out with them. Because if you're talking to a guy or someone is complimenting you may hear, "That's not a girl that's a boy!" That can cause people to treat you entirely different from if they didn't know your T at all.

    If the passable girls were more open, it would be easier to get a lot of laws and what not changed. Like the Niki Araguz case for example. That's why I think it's important to know the laws in your area as it pertains to stuff such as getting married, being legally defined as a woman, etc.

    Now being cut off from friends and family is a bit extreme to me. Like. . . there are days when I can't stand my family and want to move away from them, but I couldn't possibly cut off all contact. I'm close with them. My family respects me and knows who I am. Now I will say this. . . if a family member is blatantly disrespectful and refuses to give you the respect that you deserve, then I say cut them off. Because being family doesn't give anyone the right to treat you any way. I haven't cut a member of my family off completely, but I do limit communication with a few.

    Friends can be a so-so thing. You really have to know who are your real friends and who aren't. If you're not close with a particular friend I would say cut off contact and don't tell them your T because, if you're not close to them, chances are that they aren't close to you either and wont have problems telling your business. Which is why I believe that people only really have few friends and everyone else are just associates.

    When it comes to people bashing the TG community in your face? I'd say be mindful of your surroundings and who the group of people are who are doing it. You don't have to say, "Oh I'm trans so what do you think about me?" Instead I would recommend you be subtle with it and say something like. "Well, what did they ever do to you? Why are you concerned? Are you trans?" It's not outing yourself and at the same time you're sticking up for yourself and those like you. If you're not passable and you speak out and that person harbors horrible feelings regarding trans people, be mindful. There are girls who've been hit in the head with beer bottles and have lost eyes. So again watch your surroundings.

    All in all, I believe that being stealth has more benefits than being open, until everyone around you knows. Those people who you thought with your friends may have terrible feelings regarding you and feel betrayed. So if you're not totally honest with others, please at least be with yourself. And ya, that's it.

    Last edited by TS Jelissa; 09-17-2010 at 06:13 AM.

  3. #3
    Admin? In charge? Mew? Who? Me? Nuh uh! From_Ariel's Avatar
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    Jelissa I think you very well summed up some of the extra issues related to stealth that I didn't have time or space to mention myself TY So much!

    Yeah Like I said I understand why people do it and don't blame them but I do think we need to start having more courage if we want to see real change in our lifetimes.

    As far as family I agree completely too. I would not just arbitrarily cut out family w/o telling them but on the other hand after they know if all they can do is insult, hurt you or try to demoralize you then that is the last thing you need. An important thing to remember is Family is Family and while maybe you can't help loving family members even the ones that arn't supportive, but you DON'T have to LIKE them. Personally I think if they arn't supportive they don't need to be involved in everything or anything in your life. Respect is a two way street and the last thing you need is drunk family members on that street.

    Be yourself! Love who you are!

    Those that Matter don't Mind.
    Those that Mind don't Matter.
    --Ariel (Admin www.TransgenderBeauty.com)

    "If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind,"
    "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."

    -- Arfa Karim Randhawa (10 years old)
    .
    .
    Spoiler for Click to show useful Links & Resources:

    Standards of care for TG/TS (this is the rules and guidelines any reputable doctor or surgeon follows this has all the requirements in it.)
    http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf

    Lynn Conways Gallery of transsexual Successes

    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conw...Sgallery1.html

    Lynn Conways Gender and TS/TG basics Primer
    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

    Susans.org This is one of the oldest and best general resources for information of all kinds re: transition. Additionally it's 100% non-Profit and staffed by volunteers that care about the community. I have been a member for a long time and can highly suggest their resources. Also their chat room is 100% supportive and caring and one of the only TG/TS chats I regularly visit.
    http://www.susans.org/
    http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/Main_Page
    http://www.susans.org/reference/index.html
    http://www.susans.org/chat/index.html

    TS/TG Roadmap My disclaimer below aside, there really is some good info here but IMHO don't buy anything from them. Anything they sell can be gotten free from other people or other sites.

    (for the record I don't endorse or suggest you buy anything from this site or it's owner IMHO she is a profiteer that is literally making a living out of selling stuff to the community. If She really wanted to help like she says she does she would be providing things like the voice training videos free of charge via you tube not charging upto 20-50$ for them! I know hosting a website can cost lots of money but she could ask for donations to help fund the site also. Instead she lives in a huge house very comfortably off the money she gets from us...)
    http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Alana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From_Ariel View Post
    Some are so scared of being outed that if someone was trash-talking another TG/TS person right in front of them they would stay silent to avoid being found out.
    I hope y'all don't think any less of me, but I have had this happen once before, but it was the TG/TS community in general that was being "put down".........not an individual. I feel ashamed to admit that I didn't say anything, and if y'all hate me for it, I'll understand.

    I just wanted to be open & honest with everyone here, and hope that y'all will forgive me.

  5. #5
    Admin? In charge? Mew? Who? Me? Nuh uh! From_Ariel's Avatar
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    No, no one hates you. You have to do what you feel is best for your own safety. Only you can decide that at any given moment, and maybe that was a moment where being quiet was the better idea.

    HUGGLES!
    Click image for larger version

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    ^ I did this ^

    I just find it frustrating like I said that we all kind of end up reinforcing those same bias's when we succumb to the fear ourself.

    Sometimes though, Discretion really is the better part of valor.

    Be yourself! Love who you are!

    Those that Matter don't Mind.
    Those that Mind don't Matter.
    --Ariel (Admin www.TransgenderBeauty.com)

    "If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind,"
    "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."

    -- Arfa Karim Randhawa (10 years old)
    .
    .
    Spoiler for Click to show useful Links & Resources:

    Standards of care for TG/TS (this is the rules and guidelines any reputable doctor or surgeon follows this has all the requirements in it.)
    http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf

    Lynn Conways Gallery of transsexual Successes

    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conw...Sgallery1.html

    Lynn Conways Gender and TS/TG basics Primer
    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

    Susans.org This is one of the oldest and best general resources for information of all kinds re: transition. Additionally it's 100% non-Profit and staffed by volunteers that care about the community. I have been a member for a long time and can highly suggest their resources. Also their chat room is 100% supportive and caring and one of the only TG/TS chats I regularly visit.
    http://www.susans.org/
    http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/Main_Page
    http://www.susans.org/reference/index.html
    http://www.susans.org/chat/index.html

    TS/TG Roadmap My disclaimer below aside, there really is some good info here but IMHO don't buy anything from them. Anything they sell can be gotten free from other people or other sites.

    (for the record I don't endorse or suggest you buy anything from this site or it's owner IMHO she is a profiteer that is literally making a living out of selling stuff to the community. If She really wanted to help like she says she does she would be providing things like the voice training videos free of charge via you tube not charging upto 20-50$ for them! I know hosting a website can cost lots of money but she could ask for donations to help fund the site also. Instead she lives in a huge house very comfortably off the money she gets from us...)
    http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Alana's Avatar
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    Awww.......you're sooo sweet.....made me get all teary-eyed !!! You are a sweetheart, Ariel. Thank you.......you made my day. HUGE huggles to you !!!

  7. #7
    Admin? In charge? Mew? Who? Me? Nuh uh! From_Ariel's Avatar
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    NP hon. I love to hear that I'm making others days brighter it makes me feel good too!

    Keep it up with the posts by the may Alana your on your way to being our first "Senior Member" I setup the stuff for it last night it should have the effect of changing your "member" part to "Senior member" and your nick should change to a darker purple color. Some other minor effects are less visable like if you start a new thread you can close your own threads to new comments if you like, and your inbox will get a little bigger. More to come.

    Pure bragging rights for you if your being the first with 100 posts and over 30 days registered...

    Be yourself! Love who you are!

    Those that Matter don't Mind.
    Those that Mind don't Matter.
    --Ariel (Admin www.TransgenderBeauty.com)

    "If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind,"
    "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."

    -- Arfa Karim Randhawa (10 years old)
    .
    .
    Spoiler for Click to show useful Links & Resources:

    Standards of care for TG/TS (this is the rules and guidelines any reputable doctor or surgeon follows this has all the requirements in it.)
    http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf

    Lynn Conways Gallery of transsexual Successes

    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conw...Sgallery1.html

    Lynn Conways Gender and TS/TG basics Primer
    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

    Susans.org This is one of the oldest and best general resources for information of all kinds re: transition. Additionally it's 100% non-Profit and staffed by volunteers that care about the community. I have been a member for a long time and can highly suggest their resources. Also their chat room is 100% supportive and caring and one of the only TG/TS chats I regularly visit.
    http://www.susans.org/
    http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/Main_Page
    http://www.susans.org/reference/index.html
    http://www.susans.org/chat/index.html

    TS/TG Roadmap My disclaimer below aside, there really is some good info here but IMHO don't buy anything from them. Anything they sell can be gotten free from other people or other sites.

    (for the record I don't endorse or suggest you buy anything from this site or it's owner IMHO she is a profiteer that is literally making a living out of selling stuff to the community. If She really wanted to help like she says she does she would be providing things like the voice training videos free of charge via you tube not charging upto 20-50$ for them! I know hosting a website can cost lots of money but she could ask for donations to help fund the site also. Instead she lives in a huge house very comfortably off the money she gets from us...)
    http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html

  8. #8
    Super Moderator TS Jelissa's Avatar
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    Richmond, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alana View Post
    I hope y'all don't think any less of me, but I have had this happen once before, but it was the TG/TS community in general that was being "put down".........not an individual. I feel ashamed to admit that I didn't say anything, and if y'all hate me for it, I'll understand.

    I just wanted to be open & honest with everyone here, and hope that y'all will forgive me.
    Nope, don't think any less of you. Depending on the situation and who it was that was doing the bashing? I'd probably remain silent as well. It all just depends on the dynamics of the moment. Like in my English class last year we were talking about culture, and for some reason that topic came up. Being that it was a classroom environment I spoke up without clocking myself. No one said anything too terrible, but some said they were weirded out and didn't understand it.
    THE DIVA

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Alana's Avatar
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    Tennessee, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by From_Ariel View Post
    NP hon. I love to hear that I'm making others days brighter it makes me feel good too!

    Keep it up with the posts by the may Alana your on your way to being our first "Senior Member" I setup the stuff for it last night it should have the effect of changing your "member" part to "Senior member" and your nick should change to a darker purple color. Some other minor effects are less visable like if you start a new thread you can close your own threads to new comments if you like, and your inbox will get a little bigger. More to come.

    Pure bragging rights for you if your being the first with 100 posts and over 30 days registered...
    Honey, the post count doesn't matter to me.......I just come here & post because I feel so welcome. Other than a close online friend I have on the other end of my state, all of you girls are the only friends I have. I don't feel alone anymore (huggles........my new favorite word ).

    Quote Originally Posted by TS Jelissa View Post
    Nope, don't think any less of you. Depending on the situation and who it was that was doing the bashing? I'd probably remain silent as well. It all just depends on the dynamics of the moment. Like in my English class last year we were talking about culture, and for some reason that topic came up. Being that it was a classroom environment I spoke up without clocking myself. No one said anything too terrible, but some said they were weirded out and didn't understand it.
    Thank you sweetie (huggles). It happened at my former job in the Northeast. The bunch of guys I worked with said some disparaging remarks, and even though I'm nowhere near petite, I thought better of opening my mouth, with it being 5 against 1.

  10. #10
    Admin? In charge? Mew? Who? Me? Nuh uh! From_Ariel's Avatar
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    so yeah we had a really interesting and sometimes very ummmm spirited discussion on susans forums when I reposted this article there... it's a good read though...

    http://www.susans.org/forums/index.p...c,96760.0.html

    Have a look at it and another article done by someone else 5 years earlier...
    http://www.susans.org/forums/index.p...ic,6844.0.html

    Be yourself! Love who you are!

    Those that Matter don't Mind.
    Those that Mind don't Matter.
    --Ariel (Admin www.TransgenderBeauty.com)

    "If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind,"
    "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."

    -- Arfa Karim Randhawa (10 years old)
    .
    .
    Spoiler for Click to show useful Links & Resources:

    Standards of care for TG/TS (this is the rules and guidelines any reputable doctor or surgeon follows this has all the requirements in it.)
    http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf

    Lynn Conways Gallery of transsexual Successes

    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conw...Sgallery1.html

    Lynn Conways Gender and TS/TG basics Primer
    http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

    Susans.org This is one of the oldest and best general resources for information of all kinds re: transition. Additionally it's 100% non-Profit and staffed by volunteers that care about the community. I have been a member for a long time and can highly suggest their resources. Also their chat room is 100% supportive and caring and one of the only TG/TS chats I regularly visit.
    http://www.susans.org/
    http://wiki.susans.org/index.php/Main_Page
    http://www.susans.org/reference/index.html
    http://www.susans.org/chat/index.html

    TS/TG Roadmap My disclaimer below aside, there really is some good info here but IMHO don't buy anything from them. Anything they sell can be gotten free from other people or other sites.

    (for the record I don't endorse or suggest you buy anything from this site or it's owner IMHO she is a profiteer that is literally making a living out of selling stuff to the community. If She really wanted to help like she says she does she would be providing things like the voice training videos free of charge via you tube not charging upto 20-50$ for them! I know hosting a website can cost lots of money but she could ask for donations to help fund the site also. Instead she lives in a huge house very comfortably off the money she gets from us...)
    http://www.tsroadmap.com/index.html

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